Over the last week, we’ve been reminiscing about the first X-MEN, what became of the franchise from there, and the importance of the X-MEN comic books. The X-MEN movie and comic franchise

Sira delivered her immediate thoughts on X-MEN: DAYS OF FUTURE PAST last week. Now it’s mine and David’s turn to chat about Bryan Singer’s latest tale of mutant woe, touching on a variety of topics.

Beware, this be as SPOILER-FILLED as X-MEN has continuity holes.

Overall Impressions

David: I was a very big fan of the movie. I thought it hit so many of the right notes, capturing both the bleakness of the future timeline and the urgency of the past. I didn’t like how the plot did some aggressive hand waving to get past the “how” of this time travel occurs — especially since giving Kitty these vague powers was such a departure from, well, any talent Kitty has ever displayed in any medium. But it didn’t impair my overall enjoyment; the mechanics were secondary to the characters themselves, and those were nailed better than perhaps any X-movie ever has.

Andy: I don’t know what it is, because I know Days of Future Past is probably the best X-Men movie to date, but something felt off. Maybe it’s because I had to sit in the front row, or maybe it’s because I’m never truly happy or satisfied. Maybe because it made all other X-movies obsolete. More on that later, but I will say that this felt more like an X-MEN movie than perhaps any of them to date, that Singer managed to juggle two franchises and very nearly tied them together into a bow. The movie had no downtime, was thrilling throughout, and felt epic without necessitating endless scenes of destruction porn normally accompanying such a grand scale in a Hollywood blockbuster.

Thoughts on retconning the entire original trilogy

David: I think I liked it. The various continuity errors that the cinematic X-universe has suffered (and there were many) were never super important to me; I just wanted good stories that made sense within that film; even if, for instance, Charles met Erik a little later in life in First Class than he had said in X-Men. But I still respected the effort this movie made to resolve it all. Most studios wouldn’t have given a shit if there was internal consistency throughout the movies, so at least trying is something I respect, even if I didn’t think it was necessary. And I will still enjoy watching X-Men and X2 even if they officially “never happened”; I might even rest a little easier knowing X3 didn’t.

Andy: It rubbed me the wrong way, even if it’s for the best, and I knew it was coming. It seemed pretty clear that the Days of Future Past time travel element would be used to create a new present and re-write whatever FOX and Brett Ratner did in X3, but I don’t know if I was prepared for how completely they did. The retcon’s execution felt perfectly in the realm of what Marvel would do, and has done, with X-MEN and their characters, so really, it’s one of the most comic book-y things that the franchise has ever done. And by doing so, FOX now has possibly two X-Men franchises going concurrently, with the past-Men starting the X-Men and the school and because the future has changed, a chance to redo the Phoenix Saga (in a way in which Jean survives), and meet a younger Storm (Lupita Nyong’o!), Jean Grey and Scott Summers that have emotional depth and dimension. And the future-men can do whatever the hell we want, should they so choose, giving a chance for Wolverine to lead Iceman, Shadowcat, Colossus, Rogue, Blink, Sunspot, Bishop, Warpath, and whomever to have their moments. I’m happy that X-MEN: THE LAST STAND never happened, but was it so bad that it needed to wipe away every other movie, including The Wolverine, which aside from a crappy ending, was actually a pretty good flick precisely because of the effect Jean Grey’s death had on Logan? In many ways, X-Men was one of the more important movies of my childhood (and in Hollywood history), and now, for all intents and purposes, it doesn’t really exist anymore.

Wolverine’s Expanded Role

David: I was among those who complained a little after the first X-Men that Wolverine had too large of a role at the expense of the rest of the team. But I’ve long since gotten over it. As Andy pointed out in his Autobiography in Movies, Hugh Jackman as Logan was one of the greatest, most inspired casting moves in superhero movie history. And we’re running out of chances to see him nail that role, so why not just accept and enjoy it? Besides, more so than in X-Men, I thought they balanced the movie with plenty of great moments for the supporting cast. There was only one thing that made me regret that Wolvy was the one sent back in time, which I’ll discuss later.

Andy: It would’ve been nice if Kitty could’ve somehow come along for the ride with Wolverine (because if we’re inventing powers, that would’ve been more fun), but since they hadn’t established much of a relationship at all in the movies, that might not have worked. But it could’ve mirrored the relationship between Rogue and Wolverine in the first X-MEN. If Rogue wasn’t so clearly out of the question for many reasons (she’s cured/sucks/it makes no sense), I might’ve wanted to see her make the trip with Wolvy, because their relationship was one of the best and most realistic things we saw in the original trilogy. Anyways, I don’t have any problem with Wolverine being the central focus of the action. That’s just how it’s going to be, and Wolverine is the most fully formed character the entire franchise has, thanks to Hugh Jackman being one of the few consistent elements. It would’ve been supremely effective/badass for him to have died as David mentions. At least him being forced to carry the burden of this alternate future, while not knowing the new past/present, is something that totally fits into the tragic element of Wolverine’s character. Of course Jean Grey is back…and of course Scott Summers is still in the way.

Favorite Character (Major)

David: Magneto, 1973 version. A few ways I could go there, as this was such an incredible, deep cast of actors who nailed their roles. But for the second time, Michael Fassbender just destroyed that role. I don’t think any superhero movie villain has ever so perfectly hit the note of destructive actions while believing himself to be acting justly. Meaning, in short, he WAS Magneto, making us *feel* why he’s one of the best villains in comics history.

Andy: I don’t want to be redundant, because Fassbender’s Magneto is the answer. In what might be the best cast ever, Fassbender delivers the best performance by far (I love that he altered his voice slightly knowing McKellan would be in the film). His decisions are infuriating, maddening and insane, but it’s so Magneto, and so scary to behold, because there’s no greater threat, even next to Sentinels that have wiped out the mutant race in the future. I will say that James McAvoy and Patrick Stewart’s Professor X had more synergy and impact together than the two Magneto’s, not only because they shared a scene together, but I felt like I was witnessing their journey. We didn’t really get to see enough of Ian McKellan’s older Magneto, beyond him watching Kitty Pryde at work (thrilling). I loved his sad and heroic death scene, and his final words regretting his actions…but I don’t know if they quite had the impact that I wanted them too, because I felt a slight disconnect between the two versions of the characters, or didn’t quite believe the transformation, since we hadn’t seen any evidence of it before his last moments.

Favorite Character (Minor)

David: A lot of fans are going Quicksilver here, and not without reason; they nailed him. But I have to say my girl BLINK. Honestly, I had forgotten how much I loved that character until I saw her in live action for the first time. Chinese actress Bingbing Fan had the perfect look, and her action scenes were visually stunning and thrilling.

Andy: Storm! Just kidding. I will go with PietroPeter/Quicksilver in lieu of other options. Most of the other secondary characters just sort of exist and look pretty, or are walking plot devices (Kitty Pryde), but Quicksilver stole the show for the brief few scenes he was in, and gave the festivities much needed brevity (“My Mom knew a guy who could control metal” was simultaneously the best and worst line of the entire movie). I will say that once they found Quicksilver and got him to help…it made no sense not to use him to do everything else in the movie. But I get why that’s not how it worked out, because it would’ve been far easier that way, and all urgency/tension would’ve dissipated. I expect a X-Men: Days of Future Past in the eyes of Quicksilver parody at some point.

Least Favorite Character (Minor)

Andy: Ink, because yes, he was in this movie (and he apparently exists), as the pale white bald dude with what looked like a Phoenix tattoo on his eye. Or it’d be Colossus, because he still looks super fake, and still never gets lines. Plus, I want this to happen at least once.

David: Havok. Not that his 17 seconds of screen time in this movie had anything wrong, but they reminded me how much I disliked him in First Class. The reason I didn’t like First Class as much as a lot of people is because I thought the supporting characters were almost all awful, and I didn’t love seeing any reminder of that.

New Characters

Andy: While Blink was one of the most perfect translations from comic book to movie in terms of appearance and visuals (the portals were glorious), and Bishop was also high up there in those respects, the new mutants (Blink, Bishop, Sunspot and Warpath) were essentially CGI set dressing. Did Sunspot even have a line? They were there to die spectacularly at the beginning and the end. They looked beautiful in doing so, and I honestly have no real problem with it, since the movie was overstuffed as is, but I think it’s still the symptom of what doomed the X-MEN franchise in the first place. It’s so hard to say no to all the mutants, because there are so many awesome ones we want to see, but the impact is lost, or the result is several two dimensional mutants.

David: I can’t really think of any new characters I particularly disliked, or at least any significant ones (Ink was dumb, as you said, but he didn’t matter enough for me to care). I loved the New Mutants group in the future. They may not have been three-dimensional characters, but they weren’t needed/intended to be anything other than awesome action additions. And they looked GREAT. I don’t think the X-movies failings were ever about using too many characters. I think it was always as simple as losing the story at times or relying on two-dimensional characters to be something they weren’t. This movie balanced that better than any of the others by a decent margin.

Biggest Complaint

David: Honestly, it’s fairly minor complaints for me, but there were two things missing from this movie that really would have kicked it up to 11 for me. One would have been a shot in the future of the infamous wall of mutant targets from the cover of X-Men #141 (above), the first part of “Days of Future Past.” Given that it might be the most homaged cover in comics history, I was disappointed it didn’t make it in the movie. Two, the downside of having Wolverine be the one to go back in time, with him waking up in the future being the end of the time travel, was that we didn’t get the most breath-taking moment of the comics story: his death by incineration by a Sentinel. The future deaths we did get were still incredible, but I think that one would have brought the house down.

Andy: The plot was heavy-handed and ridiculous (Kitty’s powers), but I got most of the reasoning behind the choices. 1973 Xavier couldn’t have his powers, because it would’ve been all too easy for him to stop Mystique, Trask or Magneto before the threat ever got out of hand/Magneto got his helmet. The handy serum from Beast didn’t make a ton of sense, but whatever, I dug the drug addiction parallels, and I liked that Xavier was sacrificing his gifts to walk again. It’s such an incredulous decision, but it shows how damaged and withdrawn he’s become.

The Stryker addition was very effective if only for the Wolverine scene and the ending with Mystique, but his involvement with the franchise is so confusing at this point, that I had no idea why he was there, why he was so anti-mutant, etc. We know his motivations have to do with his son, and it also doesn’t really matter in the scheme of Days of Future Past, but I kinda just am over Stryker.

I LOVED everything we got with Jennifer Lawrence and Mystique…and think she’s done wonders in this role. I get that she’s the female Wolverine/Hugh Jackman, in that Mystique has become a huge character because an Oscar winning global phenomenon plays her, but Singer and company have done such a great job of justifying why. It makes so much sense that her DNA is what was used to make the Sentinels so damn formidable (although I guess Morph’s DNA would’ve been more apt), and she was the assassin who killed Senator Kelly in the comics and propelled the alternate future forward. I hated how Xavier treats Mystique in the first film; he deserved to be abandoned, because he treated Raven like a child and lumped her with Havok, Angel and the rest, despite Xavier GROWING UP WITH HER. The second film serves up some retribution to Xavier, while he also finally realizes how big of a dick he was. I love how mercurial Mystique is, that she’s not Magneto’s sex slave or #2, that she’s on her own, with her own motives, making her own decisions, and how dangerous they’ve made her, even as an misunderstood anti-hero. BUT, and this is where the complaint comes in: while Mystique is such an important character in this movie, we get that from Xavier and Magneto’s perspective, and not really her own. Perhaps that’s due to the nature of her powers. After all, it’s really hard to get scenes from her POV; even when she’s the central focus, she primarily looks like someone else. The Magneto/Xavier relationship dynamic is the boon of First Class and this film, and the explosive addition of Mystique into that triangle is brilliant/interesting, especially since she’s not merely a love interest…but I don’t know if her character really stands on her own. We see everyone trying to reach her, trying to get her to do things, and never really get inside her head, or get a moment to see her for who she really is. That’s the mystique of her character, I suppose, but I also think more screen time and focus on her character could’ve made it incredible, and give her heroic choice at the end even more emotional resonance.

Where does the film rank in the X-Men franchise canon?

David: It’s close between X2 and Days of Future Past, and I’ll need to see the latter more than once to say it definitively, but right now, I’m going with Days of Future Past as the best one of all. It so captured the desperation of the X-Men when they’re at their best, the darkness of that world and the greatness of its characters.

Andy: TBD. It could be anywhere from #1 or #4. I don’t even know how I’d rank the other films beside it, but I’m thinking I’d rank it #2 after X2.

How about that post-credits scene?

David: Given that we already knew the title of the next movie is X-Men: Apocalypse, it shouldn’t have had so much effect on me, but my god did it get me excited. Apocalypse, despite some missteps in stories over the years, is still my second-favorite X-villain, and I just cannot freaking wait to see him in action. I thought it was smart to show him as a boy (though he was older in the comics when he came into his own) so we could get a glimpse at our Big Bad while still leaving the real casting open.

Andy: I loved this. It looked rushed CGI-wise, but hearing the En Sabuh Nur chant, and seeing the four horsemen, got me tingly. Before it happened, I joked that perhaps it’d end like Avengers, with a blue guy the general public doesn’t know grinning to the camera. I would’ve laughed, but thankfully that didn’t happen. I can’t wait to see the Apocalypse story set in the 1980’s, and whatever my thoughts on Days of Future Past, there’s no denying that the X-franchise is in as good a position as it’s been since after the first movie. Most of the baggage is jettisoned, and now creativity (and hopefully characterization) can flow. Of course, given the bright X-future we’ve seen and knowing Apocalypse takes place in the 80’s, does that lessen the stakes?

Four Horseman of the Apocalypse Predictions

Andy: Four of the following: Archangel, Mystique, Mr. Sinister, Dark Beast, Banshee (I don’t think we saw his death certificate in Trask’s lair), Havok, Psylocke, Caliban and Domino, in order of likelihood. As long as Toad is nowhere near the running. Hell, maybe young Storm, Jean and Scott will make up three quarters of it (and maybe we’ll figure out how Havok exists). It’d be a helluva way to introduce them.

David: When Apocalypse debuted in the 1980s in X-Factor, he just had four original horsemen without using any prior characters. I think trying to get four “name” horsemen might make things too crowded, or cause the impact to be lessened when Apocalypse does try/force one X-Men to become a Horseman. So I predict we get three generics, with an X-Man becoming Death. And that X-Man will be…well, probably Wolverine, since Jackman is softening on the next Wolvy movie being his last appearance as the character.

Mutant You Most Want to See

Andy: Cable?

David: In order: Young Storm, Mister Sinister, Cable, Shadow King, Nightcrawler (somehow)

Andy: We need a Storm spin-off (again, starring Lupita) in which she takes on Calypso and the Morlocks. Mostly because of that mohawk.

I’m on the side of whoever protested making this abomination.

May 26, 2006 was possibly the worst day of a fan[girl, boy, or other]’s life. May 26, 2006 marked the day that Brett Ratner, Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn put big, flashing, neon, red X’s (how painfully ironic) on their backs with not-so-fine-print that said, “COMIC FANS, PLEASE USE US AS TARGET PRACTICE.” May 26, 2006 was the day I realized that going to jail for manslaughter could become a reality for me.

Take a stand? Bitch took the cure, not a stand.

X-MEN: THE LAST STAND was the worst comic-book movie I’ve ever seen, (yes, worse than DAREDEVIL, ELEKTRA and THE FANTASTIC FOUR combined) for the fact that it took my favorite group of superheroes and absolutely ruined them. The problems I had with that movie could be drawn up, yeah… In a very long, very curse-word-ridden list that would take me probably the rest of my life to complete.

But none of that matters because now there’s DAY OF FUTURE PAST; the light at the end of this horrid tunnel that I thought would never, ever end. I’m not saying that DOFP will be the best movie ever, or even that it’ll be good (though critics do seem to like it overall). What I’m saying is that DOFP will be great because it will eradicate THE LAST STAND and render it obsolete in the X-Men’s cinematic world.

Here we are folks, almost eight years later to the day where we, the fans, are finally getting the X-Men film we deserved.

I just… Wat?

I’ll admit that on the one hand it’s quite frightening to think that Mr. Kinberg is trying his pen once again at writing an X-Men film, (he hasn’t done a whole lot of noteworthy stuff since TLS, but is slated as being the writer for THE FANTASTIC FOUR reboot, and the recently announced GAMBIT and X-MEN: APOCALYPSE). Maybe it’s misplaced faith, maybe it’s hope that he’ll do something to redeem himself, maybe it’s just because I’m so excited to see the damn movie but I somehow get the feeling that I won’t be too disappointed in what’s to come. I can’t help but have some confidence in him that he learned his lesson the last time and wouldn’t dare try any more silly antics like changing an entire backstory of a pivotal character, moving the Golden Gate Bridge, or destroying Alcatraz Island. Either that, or Fox Studios really is as dumb as we all thought when they decided to bring this lame-o back on to write the latest X-Men installment. (Which, to be fair, is probably a fairly safe bet to place. Fox really is quite stupid.)

Now, on the flip side of the X3 WAS THE WORST MOVIE EVER OMG WHY coin, most X-Men (and comic fans in general) loved X-MEN: FIRST CLASS. They thought it was a hopeful, interesting story with dynamic new characters who had a range of abilities. I liked it well enough – it was definitely entertaining – but to me it seemed very frivolous and not in a fun, comedic, witty way. While there’s no doubt the casting was wonderful, I couldn’t help but miss our old, more distinguished cast. And please, don’t misunderstand me: when I say distinguished I don’t mean they were better or more important, I mean that there was a darkness to the first two films – both in casting and in storyline – and FIRST CLASS didn’t have that. It felt light and fun and playful when all I really wanted was the weight of what being a mutant was. I wanted a serious X-Men film that felt grown up, and not like kids on a playground. FIRST CLASS was too light, while THE LAST STAND tried so hard to be dark and mysterious that it ended up just being silly.

If it all works out [the way I want it to because my word is law, obviously] DAYS OF FUTURE PAST will be the perfect melding of the minds between the changing world from FIRST CLASS and the tragic future that exists somewhere post-X2 (I’m avoiding reading all spoilers so I have no idea how everything fits together). Either way ya’ll, I’ve waited 8 years, so here’s to waiting yet another week.

If there’s a dark cloud hanging over the sunny festivities of WonderCon, it’s likely the sexual abuse allegations that have been thrown director Bryan Singer’s way. He had been planned to represent his newest film, the epic gigantic crazy mind$#%# X-Men: Days of Future Past, but those were obviously squashed.

But the FOX presentation for X-Men: Days Of Future Past still went on, with writer and X-architect Simon Kinberg there to take his place.

It was a brief panel, but it’s hard not to get excited about this movie, even if it seems destined to either rule or blow up completely.

As Kinberg states, it’s the “biggest collection of X-Men on the screen” and of course, features time travel, something fraught with difficulty. It was, in fact, the trickiest part of the movie, and especially the screenplay (that Kinberg worked on). They wanted to use real science, but if that was the case, they wouldn’t have time travel. They met with physicists, and actually got a big assist from a film time travel guru, one James Cameron, who gave them advice, and scientific evidence to study. According to Kinberg, they were really meticulous with how time travel worked. They set up rules at the very beginning of the movie and stick with them throughout. As long as they do that, I think we’ll all follow. But I don’t think many are going to see DOFP for “realistic” time travel science. They’ll likely be disappointed.

Then, those at the panel were given a taste of the latest trailer, one that no has seen on the big screen until now. Even cooler, we got to see an extended version of the opening battle that has also been introduced online, and we’re the first to see this extended clip.

Again, spoilers.

It doesn’t disappoint, even if it seems crazy spoiler-y. But clearly, with the time travel elements, any deaths or big events can or aim to be rebooted, and especially since they’re showing this scene before the movie hits, all is not what it seems. Essentially, the scene involves the new, future-y Sentinels and the young X-Men, both new and old to the films, from Blink, Sunspot, Shadowcat, Iceman, Colossus, Warpath and Bishop. It doesn’t go well for the group, but we get to see how Blink and Sunspot’s powers will translate to the big screen, and how Iceman and Colossus’ powers have developed since X3. Blink looks super cool, I’ll say, while the others look a bit too heavy CGI/shiny. It ends with almost everyone dead, but Shadowcat and Bishop are able to transport/time travel? away, in the nick of time (“Too late, assholes.”).

Kinberg mentions that “Days of Future Past” was his favorite X-Men story growing up, and also owns up on some past mistakes by the franchise. We “probably should’ve done better with Dark Phoenix, but this is our attempt to make a cool “Days of Future Past.” They are literally going back and righting our wrongs, like the characters.

The mood and colors of the past and future provide rich contrast. The 70′s gives a bright, splashy color palette, while the future is dark and somber.

James McAvoy‘s first day on set was the scenes between him and Patrick Stewart, a daunting task. It was the bridge between the two time periods and cast, and was referred to as the “nose off,” because they were filmed in profile, and it displayed their significant noses.

The discussion turned to Peter Dinklage, as most do these days. He’s playing the villain in the film, Bolivar Trask, the creator of the Sentinels. Kinberg didn’t write with him in mind, but like everybody else, he’s obsessed with Game of Thrones. They needed an actor who could stand up to the big level of actors they have (McAvoy, Michael Fassbender, Jennifer Lawrence, etc.) Dinklage very quickly became their first and only choice. According to Kinberg, he’s spectacular in the film, and gives gravity and humanity to Trask, “hard to with a villain.” Not a well written one.

The film does indeed have Richard Nixon in it, and not just clips like First Class had of JFK. There are significant scenes between Nixon and mutants, Nixon and Trask, and they posit that the Watergate tapes that went missing had something to do with mutants. Does he hate mutants? It’s not black and white; Nixon is a complicated dude.

Hugh Jackman didn’t get much off time between shooting Wolverine and DOFP, but he actually preferred that, because he didn’t go up and down from his insane diet and workout regimen. Wolverine, of course, was the only guy in both time periods, so he had the most important role in the film. Because Wolverine. Hugh gets to play two versions of the character, as they made Wolverine the character to go back in time, and not Kitty like in the comic books, for a lot of reasons (because Wolverine).

And that, was that. Stunningly, the film is coming out on May 22nd, barely over a month away. Crazy.